Jumping Off
Think of a moment in your life that required resilience. Did it come right away? Did you have help? Were you at rock bottom, clawing your way through life, and feeling down and out?
I have two beliefs about resiliency. 1: We're not born with it. I believe it is something we consciously and subconsciously work on each and every day. It can happen in a moment or take years to cultivate and eventually harvest.
And 2: We never have to find resiliency all on our own. It's okay to talk about our struggles, to ask for help, and to have hands hold our through the toughest experiences life has to offer.
When was the moment you needed resiliency?
FULL TRANSCRIPT. (The following is the full transcript of this episode of Catch The Message. Please note that this episode, like all HED episodes, features Victor and Deanna speaking extemporaneously–They are unscripted and unedited.)
VICTOR
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Healing Everyday Podcast. My name is Victor,
DEANNA
And I'm Deanna.
VICTOR
We are literally sweating here in Chicago. It's
DEANNA
So hot. It's so bad.
VICTOR
Oh my gosh. How you doing, Deanna?
DEANNA
Good. Like you said, just sweating all the time. We actually, Victor and I had gone to a rehearsal, well, he had double rehearsals yesterday, and I went to a rehearsal with him and he picked me up from my house and the walk from my house to his car. I was dying. And I get in the car, I'm like, oh my God. He's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I'm so sweaty and all red. My whole face was beet red. And if you watch our videos on here, shameless plug to also watch this. My face is very red yesterday and then today as well. I actually just got back from the pool. They opened the pool special tonight because of the heat's been so bad, so sweaty.
Yeah. It's like it reached 101 I think today in my car. Anyway, I saw the outside temperature. So it's funny, I had this on, I didn't have it on speaker mode. So you're talking and I'm shuffling things and everyone can still see me. I apologize everybody, but we're excited today because not only is it's swimming weather, like you said, the water as warm as the air it was so it really doesn't cool you off, does it?
I would not call it refreshing, but me, my husband and my son all went. And so even though it wasn't like a cool off, it was really nice to get into the water and play together as a family. I also noticed that a bunch of kids, mainly two girls who were sisters were just obsessed with playing with Matt and Harry. We bought one of those water footballs and for 40 minutes Matt is just throwing balls at them and they're just so excited. And when we ended up leaving, Matt was like, wow, those kids really playing with us, huh? I'm like, yeah. I go, some kids don't always get to play with grownups, and that probably made them feel so special. So yes, even though it was bathwater not refreshing, it was a lot of fun.
VICTOR
So while you were doing all that today, I was at a school. I had my first school today and it was great. It was my eighth grade presentation at the middle schools. And we talked about, I think a little bit of what we're going to talk about today. And it's about having courage, not only having courage as an individual, but knowing that our kids are going to have courage too to try new things and all that. But I specifically talked today about the overcoming the skateboard and talking about that in life we're going to have to be willing to step outside our comfort zones in order to accomplish new things. I think that's extremely important, and how courage turns into confidence. And I know you want to start out with something that your son did today that I think is a perfect example of courage, turning into confidence because now he won't stop doing it.
DEANNA
I know, and that's so true. Okay, and I won't forget what I'm talking about, but can you really quick, I know what you're talking about. Can you explain what you mean by the skateboard and courage and stuff like that?
VICTOR
Yeah, perfect. So I do this program called The Road to Resilience, and I also incorporate it in our sexual abuse awareness prevention curriculum. But what it is, is basically before I started doing all this prevention work, I used to go to schools 25 years ago talking to kids about having goals and dreams. And I was at an elementary school one day and I asked this question to these elementary kids. I said, who has dreams? Who has goals? And this little fourth grader raised his hand, he stood up, I'll never forget it. He took my microphone and he said, Victor, when I grow up, I want to be a professional skateboarder. And I said, that's really cool. I said, and again, it wasn't scripted. I didn't know what he was going to say, but I didn't notice the kids around him chuckling and all that. But he didn't care.
He is like, this is what I want to do. And I said, well, okay, let me ask you a question. When you're on your skateboard, do you ever fall off? And he looked at me and he's like, yeah, I fall off. I go, okay, good. We're having this conversation. So when you fall off your skateboard, do you just wait and lay there for someone to come get you? And he's like, no, Victor. I get back up, I dust myself off and I keep on going. I get back on my skateboard and I keep on skating. I keep on going. And that is an example of what life is. We're all going to fall down at some point in our lives. And I tell kids this too. It's not just physically, we could fall down emotionally at some point and it's like, what are we going to do about it?
Are we going to stay locked in that place emotionally, even physically, or are we going to have the courage to seek out the help, whatever that is for you, and to be able to get back up? And it's funny, I always say, do you wait for someone to come get you? Well, no, you don't. You have to have the energy moving up. You can have someone who does show up to help you, but if you're resisting the help, guess what's going to happen? There's nothing that's going to get you off that ground. And so people are going to be there to help you, but it requires you to take that step. And so that's what this whole idea of overcome the skateboard. And then I talk about real life situations as it pertains to different levels of falling off the skateboard. For example, if a pebble gets stuck in your wheel of your skateboard and you're moving along and everything is great, and all of a sudden that pebble gets stuck, and what does it do?
It causes friction and maybe knocks you off balance. And I'll ask kids, and you can even think about this yourself in your life. We start small, we end up going bigger with the obstacle, but what's a real life pebble in the wheel of your skateboard? And kids raise their hand, they'll say, getting a bad grade on a test or getting picked on or whatever they might even say. Getting in an argument with a parent and then having to go to school. I said, yeah, these are good examples. And then I'll say, you're moving along and all of a sudden you hit the crack in the sidewalk, and this time your skateboard stops flips. You go flying, and the skateboard's flipped over too. What could that be? And they raise their hand. They'll say, my parents getting a divorce, getting full out, bullied. They'll say, getting a bad grade on a test and then perhaps failing the class and having to take it over.
So we're building up with these obstacles. And then the third one is you're moving along and all of a sudden you get pushed off without any control. You have no control, you get pushed off your skateboard. And that could be, again, not physically knocked down, but emotionally. And that could be losing somebody, a family member, a pet. So there's these different levels of adversity, and I walk them through based on the skateboard. And it's really cool because it really talks about that at the end of the day, you have choices that you have to make, make some decisions, but you don't have to go through it alone. And I think a lot of kids sometimes feel that they want, they are alone. I had a girl come up to me after the presentation today. She said, Victor, you really got into your story. Did you ever think of just ending at all?
And I went, wow. I go, are you okay? And she's like, oh, no, I'm fine. I just wanted to know what you were going to say. And I'm like, wow. I go, well, here's the deal. Thoughts had gone through my mind growing up of that, but I never would've done it. I think I love myself too much to want to do that. And also I would make, a lot of people would be sad if I did that, and I wouldn't want to do that to the people that I really care about. That was my quick answer. But then I asked her again, are you okay? Because it's part of our job, because I've never had anyone ask me that question. But she was very bubbly. She's like, no, no, no. I just wanted to know your answer to the question. I'm like, huh. It's funny.
DEANNA
It's very, yes. It's a great question and very introspective to reflect on it.
VICTOR
Yeah, and it's funny because again, not funny, haha, but when I was that age, I never would've asked that question. We didn't really talk about that. And these kids are, and I think it's great, they're so comfortable, just come right up. She wanted to ask it in class, but my presentation's so packed that I want to get it out and get it done. So she walked up to me afterwards and I think I learned something today I think I would've really loved. They don't usually ask me questions during my presentation. I should have let it go and say, okay, what do you want to ask me? And it would've been interesting to have her ask that question in front of everybody
DEANNA
So everyone could benefit from that answer. And I also think with things like suicide or suicidal ideation, which both of which I thought about growing up and in young adulthood before I really got my psychiatric mental emotional help, I did have those thoughts and those feelings. And I think it's because even when I was surrounded by people, I didn't realize how much love I had and how little love I had for myself. It's so true. And one of the things that I tell kids, because ouch, I also talk about the skateboard and the resiliency and getting back up. I say that resiliency is not something we're born with, but rather something we work on every day and we don't have to do it alone. And when we hit a pebble, a cracker, an outside force, it's all subjective to our own experiences. So if one person says an outside force to them pushing them down is full on bullying and harassment, that might be a pebble to someone else who's dealing with sexual abuse or horrific things at home.
So it's really important not to compare things either, but rather to meet people where they are. And that's for our seventh grade, and it is one of my most favorite curriculums because we really get into nitty gritty there. And I just love so much how students open up at that point. And sometimes I'll get kids who are a little bit funny, and I'll be like, well, if McDonald's only gives me five chicken nuggets out of a six piece, and I'm like, aha, you know what? But real talk, could that ruin somebody's moment? I mean, they were really looking forward to it. And so there's moments where there's almost some just in it, but then it starts to get really serious. I had a student once who said that they years before now, they consider themselves a US resident, but years before in elementary school, they were a refugee and it was terrifying.
And they were like, it was weird to eat different food and feel nervous to eat my own food at school. I didn't know how people were going to react, and my clothing was different and I spoke differently. And on top of that, this is a totally, and all the students, it brought such a different feeling like, wow, I guess we never really thought of that for some kids. And I love that we're talking about this today and that you were cool with this topic because we see this resiliency in our position as presenters and when kids disclose to us, but we also see it in our own kids. And how can our kids build resiliency if we are, and by I mean myself here, if I'm constantly trying to catch him before he falls, I never give him the opportunity to fail or have a tough moment or a tough day. And I just take that away from him and it would ultimately, it would stunt him for adulthood. And then all of a sudden he goes into adulthood and doesn't know how to deal with adversity or with a failure. And when you fail, you get that drive and that gumption to get up back on the skateboard and try again. So okay, I'll tell you about mine and then you got to tell me if it triggers anything for you.
VICTOR
Just a side note, you mentioned McDonald's and something came up on, what was it, on YouTube or whatever the other day they showed 'em a factory of how they actually make chicken.
DEANNA
It's gross. It is gross.
VICTOR
I'm sorry. I have had chicken nuggets at one time. Of course I liked them. But to watch 'em actually make it, it's really disgusting. That probably another topic. And wow, I was literally, I was like, I'm like, where are the chicken McNuggets? They're like this big, it's
DEANNA
Goo. It's goo. Harry gets, and you can parents go ahead and judge away if you want. I would never judge another parent. But every week on Friday, Harry gets his treat for the end of the week. It's what he gets for a meal. We don't get full sugar soda or anything like that, but he does get a kid's meal. But recently he's like, mommy, and he's kind of a picky eater, but he was like, mommy, I don't want chicken nuggets. And I'm like, you don't ever have to get chicken nuggets. You can have a side like a fry, and then you can eat something else at home, a treats to celebrate the end of the week for working so hard. And so he goes, well, I want to try something different. And I'm like, okay, what do you want to try? And he tried a freaking burger with ketchup on it and he was like, oh, that wasn't so bad. So a small pebble that Harry tried something new and enjoyed it, but I'm still like, McDonald's is a pregnant lady that would hit the spot at times. But yeah, the way they make their food all fast food probably, oh,
VICTOR
I don't know. We don't have to talk about it. It kind of really grossed me out. So I don't know if I can ever look at a chicken Big nugget the same.
DEANNA
Yeah, that's honestly hilarious. And I'm not shaming anybody goes to make notes whatsoever. Like I said, I take my kid once a week.
VICTOR
I've been there, I've done that. My kids were little at one time and oh
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yes, we would do that. It was just easy, convenient. But yeah, you just got to do it every so often.
DEANNA
Yes, yes. And now he's more into the small fry or whatever. But okay, so this is what happened today. Like we said, it's been super hot. And I mentioned earlier that we had gone to the pool. Now our pool is closed now in my neighborhood except for I believe weekends, until Labor Day because school started and all their lifeguards went back to school. But because it's been so hot, our township decided to open it up from four to seven for Swim for Families. And I'm so thankful now. The water, like I said, is just as hot as the air, but it was fun to go. And there's times where I get choked up just living in the moment and watching Matt, my husband and Harry play in the water and just watching Harry just clinging onto him and hold onto him in ways I never wanted to clinging to my dad because there wasn't safety there.
And it was so fun. And Harry, we had the suggestion from his pre-K teacher his first year, Hey, this kid has never been socialized, which is true. He's very intelligent and a hard worker. However, the social emotional piece of working with other kids and following besides from his parents, it wasn't there. And that's why we decided two years of pre-K, and they were like, we would encourage, get him into other activities. And they're like, we know we're tailing end pandemic here, and a lot of parents are nervous to get back out there, but consider it. And that day I signed him up for swimming lessons. And because my husband's a water, my mother-in-law called him a water baby loves the water. He's a Pisces, he's the fish. He was a lifeguard. I grew up with a pool and I was like, that's so I don't know why I didn't think of it before.
He's in swimming. And so we put him in swimming and it took about six months for him, it just to click. And so now he's been in about 19, 20 months or so, and after the first six months he could swim. This kid is a fish and going to the pool and him just darting back and forth, being able to tread water. Amazing. And at the beginning it was scary. And I had to be brave just like him and watch him go from water adjustment to just the scoops and then to backflow and then to backstroke. He's working on now. And today my husband again being a fish, and these girls, these little girls, my son are all playing with my husband and they're like, go off the diving board slash the lifeguard. And my husband is like, yeah, I'll do that. So he's like, babe, I'm sorry, I got to go jump off the diving board.
I'm like, okay, go do it. So me and my son are standing by the pool's edge by the 10 foot, eight inch deep pool, and he's going, mommy, I want to do that, mommy, I want to do that. I'm like, I don't know buddy. You're a great swimmer. But in my head, and I'm in my swimsuit, I'm in my head thinking it will take me two seconds to get into the pool, three seconds to get over to him. There's a lifeguard right there, but that's so scary and so dangerous. And my husband jumps in, I film it for my mother-in-law, and he swims out and he gets out and Harry's literally vibrating and he's like, daddy, I want to do it, daddy. I want to do it. And he's not even looking at me because mommy already said, I don't know buddy. And Matt goes, yeah, let's go bud.
:
And I was like, okay, I'll just be over here. I'll film. I'll film, and I am struggling to keep it PG here. I'm struggling. And they're standing in line. And the two sisters who were playing with Matt and Harry in the pool are in front of them and we're cheering them on. I'm like, yeah. And I'm trying to build myself up, and I'm so scared for the moment that Harry hits the water, I was taught to swim by being thrown into the water and drowning. That's how I was taught to swim, sink or swim, Deanna, and you better do it. We're not going to help you. That's scary. Oh, it was horrible. And honestly, there's a lot of people today that still do that with their kids. And I digress. But Harry gets up and he literally bounces every step of the way on the diving board to the very edge and just jumps in.
And I'm trying not to hold my breath. And I'm like, and I'm filming and I'm shaking. And he got up and he just kicks and scoops all the way to the edge, and he was so excited and so happy, and he went back and did it again, and I was breathing a little easier. And the last time he did it, he did a front flip into the water and it was so difficult to just sit back and watch him do it. Now I am on not natural consequences parent. If I see my kid doing something that is not, that is not going to cause major harm, but something could happen that could hurt them, I try to take a step back and just let them experience it. Like Harry jumping off a swing set from four or five feet up. I'm just kind of like, okay, well, he is going to learn his lesson here.
Same thing. They had a lifeguard. My husband was right there. I was right there. There was a moment where after the flip he sputtered a little bit and I was like, hesitating. And Matt was like, dude, just flip over on your back like you do. And that's exactly what he did. And then he kept swimming and he did it. And I was so proud of him. I was so proud of me that I just kept myself back because how is he ever going to learn to swim if I'm constantly holding him up? And how is he ever going to build that courage and the confidence to keep going when he's treading water? If mommy's always going to be there, but I'm not always going to be there. So it was a really emotional moment for me just to let him be. And before the podcast, Harry So Badly was like, I got to tell somebody and wanted to tell Victor and wanted to call Grandma and wanted to repeat it and watch the videos a million times. And it was really hard to watch it happen because as survivors of any type of child abuse, we project and we construct the worst case scenario so much of the time. And I know I still do it even after all this time of going through therapy, but I'm so glad that I'm sitting with being uncomfortable so I don't Harry in his growth. And so building resilience for him, building resiliency for me. And I know, I mean, you have three kids who are now older. You had to have had moments just like this, right?
VICTOR
Well, yeah. I mean, I was thinking of a quote about water, and Dr. Dyer said, you can't get wet from the word water. You have to get in and experience the water. You just can't do it unless you experience it. You can't ride a bike until you just by looking at a bike, you got to get on the bike and ride the bike. And what I think about, I have lots of stories, but three specifically one back in the day and two more current, my son Angelo started playing baseball. I don't know when he was five or six. And you don't know at first if kids have it or not.
I had it pretty early on. I knew how to catch pretty quickly and all that, and maybe that was something good that my father did. I remember I didn't know if I was lefty or righty. And I remember, I guess he had asked me and I started throwing up my left hand. And so he bought me this black mitt. It was so cool. And I just started throwing, catching. But my son, Angelo was on a team right away, and we never really did a lot of practicing. And I remember the very first practice, we just kind of threw him in it go swim kind of a thing. And he was on this team. He got kind of drafted on this team that were together from another baseball league that came over to our league, and they were all, they played and they were like, all this, all that, and great coach.
And they put Angela at first base at a practice. Now first base, you're getting ground balls hit to the infield, you're getting thrown. He's got to catch the ball. Anyway, the very first one, I'm nervous. I'm sitting there going, my gosh, he's going to get hit. Well, he did. The ball came in low, he kind of didn't know what to do, and it bounced up, hit him right in the face, and he said, I'm done. I quit. He was five or six, he's crying. I quit. I quit. I'm like, oh, no. However, I just let him sit off to the side. I was really nervous. You don't want to see your kid get hurt ever. And of course he continued to play, but then he became the, I don't know, he started getting hit every game, like batting. They would always hit him. And it's so funny.
It is like you're attracting the ball. But that was an experience for me. I knew I didn't want him to quit. I want him to play. I want him to keep going, but it was up to him. I couldn't make him do it. But he got back out there and he just started catching the ball, and then it just multiplied. It kept getting better and better and faster and faster. And he is doing really great. He's on the high school baseball team now. But my point is, it's like, it was very scary because you don't want your kids to get hurt, but you also don't want to shelter them either. And so for example, my son Luca now, he's now 13, and he's just starting to play baseball more serious now than he's ever, he's really into it now, but he hardly ever played. And I get nervous for him because he's 13 years old that the team ranges from 11 to 13. Well, he's tall compared to the 11 year olds, but he's not for the third. He's on the shorter side, and I get nervous, but guess where they're putting him because he's left-handed first base.
DEANNA
VICTOR
But watching him the other night, I'm like, holy cow, he's got skills and he's just starting to play. So I'm nervous. I'm watching him. And here's the thing, when I would play catch with him, I know how to throw a baseball and I can put it anywhere I want most of the time. So I would always put it over here or up here to the right of him, above him, but never right here. I was always scared. So now I just throw the ball. I used to do that with Angelo too. Then Mimi's playing volleyball. And even not only, she's actually starting this year, which is so cool. And she's a libero. You know what a libero is?
DEANNA
That's one of the most important positions,
VICTOR
I think. So it's like the middle position.
DEANNA
She's the one, is that the one that wears the different color jersey? Yeah.
VICTOR
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And anyway, so watching her from last year, she didn't play very much, but I loved watching her play or even watching her being on a team. Her spirit on the side is just, she's so cool. And then yesterday she was playing a lot and she's making plays. She made some mistakes too, but I still get nervous. I want my kid to succeed, but at the same time, I want her to have fun too. So it was like that balance. But then go back. As your kids get older, they start taking driver's ed, and you're like, oh my gosh, all this, you're letting them behind a wheel while you're sitting next to 'em. Angelo finished, he's all done. You'll get his license in March. But when he first started driving, I was like, wow, this is real. This is real. And so, I don't know. I get what you're saying, and I think it's very important that, again, it's that courage turns into confidence. And I think the more you try something, the better you're going to get and the more confidence you're going to have. But as parents, it never ends, I don't think. And I don't, no.
DEANNA
Right. It's always going to be there. Right? It's always going to be
VICTOR
There. And I don't think, I mean, I get what you're saying that with our backgrounds and what we've gone through, it's probably heightened. But I bet a lot of parents who have never had anything happen to them or level still have those things, those fears and stuff like that. And the projections, what was I going to say? There was something, oh, they went to Great America this summer. Every time Great America is an big amusement park by us. And every time they go, I'm always projecting things because it can be, there's been a lot of things. That's why I try not to watch a lot of the news because it just brings a lot of negativity and all that. I hear news, but I don't necessarily have to watch it.
DEANNA
Oh, no, I'll send you the news. I know you don't watch very much, but I watch religiously multiple times a day. I'm like, what can I send Victor? That's not too much. I can't send him too many really tragic stuff in a row. I mean, we get a lot of trauma in our work. And for me, I look at it as every parent is going to have fear and terror and all that. And for me, I think it's part of healing every day to not shy away from it the same way I shied away from my fear about everything else related to trauma. This Harry swimming has nothing to do with my trauma. Harry playing at the park without me standing right next to him has nothing to do with my trauma whatsoever. But that feeling of being out of control and not being able to stop something that is so similar to what I felt as a child.
VICTOR
Yeah, when you say it like that, I totally Agree with that. Yes. For anybody listening, I would never tell a parent who's not a survivor, well, you don't feel what I feel. No, of course not. They are just like, it's all subjective to our experience. What they're feeling is most likely just as intense and as scary as what I'm feeling. And so the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because quite literally, going back to the name of the podcast, it's all about healing every day. That even though we've been through this and we've been through this very difficult stuff, I mean, even in adulthood, we're still dealing with things. It's healing every day to be able to sit with those feelings and work through it and allow our children to be human and have their own experiences. And it's almost as if there's times, like I said, I had deep breathe because I was hesitating to allow that. And I'm so glad I did, because I mean, you saw him. He's so happy, so excited to have done that, and now he's going to do it all the time and he's just going to get better. So yeah,
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I mean, you agree that as parents, we want our children to have a better, I didn't have a horrible childhood. Yes, I had a lot of trauma, but
DEANNA
debatable Victor.
VICTOR
Well, Yeah, compared to other people, it was very, very bad. It was Tough, But I had good moments too. But I looked at it as I've had moments with my children that I'm not proud of because I'm not perfect. I don't claim to be, but I've made them worse probably in my head than they really are. Once in a while. A little thing that would happen, A little temper here, a little temper there. It's going to happen, potentially give myself grace, but know that overall, their childhoods is that even a word. Childhoods have been way better than mine ever was. Absolutely. And that was one of my goals as a parent, right? Again, I said it today, as we come back to the end of this podcast, this episode, I said it today to the kids. I said, we talked about personal heroes. And I said, my greatest personal hero is my father, because I set it up that way.
I said, I love my dad. I loved him through all his negativity, his alcoholism, his master bullying. He was a bully at home. But I loved him through it all. But he was my greatest hero, personal hero. And this is the first time out about seven years, six years I've been going to these schools. I said, does anybody know why he's my greatest personal hero? And this kid in the front row raised his hand and he says, because he taught you what not to do. And that's the answer. And I got goosebumps because no one's ever said that before, but that's the answer. He taught me what not to do. So I would love my goal, not that it has to be this way, but I would love when my kids are older. My dad's my greatest hero because he taught me what to do, and he's helped me become who I am today. And that to me is exactly what you're going through. Now, obviously you want your kids to be safe and you're going to make sure they are safe, but you got to also get to those moments where you're just, okay, I'm here. I'm here. I'll, I'll film you. Go do your thing with your dad. And I'll watch. And I won't let him know that I'm feeling what I'm feeling.
DEANNA
Right. And I'm all about authentic emotion and feeling my feelings and sharing with Harry when it's appropriate. But I don't want to project my trauma and my trauma symptoms onto him that prevents him from living a full and free life. I used to say, I want to raise my children in a way that they don't have to recover from their childhoods. What there's going to be things that they're going to have to recover from inevitable. We can't bubble them, but my hope is that they don't have to recover from the same things I did. So yeah, I think that's a good place to wrap up here. It's about resiliency in us and then giving our children the opportunity to build that resilience without the parental trauma.
VICTOR
That's perfect. Perfect. Everyone, thank you for joining us today. Please share this with your family and friends. Go to our website, childhood victories.com, learn about our work. We're so proud of it, and we have a new year coming up, and we're excited to be sharing a lot of new things are happening in the company, and we'll talk about that at a later time. But share our work with everyone, with the people, schools. Maybe we'll be coming to your area. And until next time, be present. Be playful and be powerful
DEANNA
And be happy. Be healthy. Be safe.
VICTOR
Bye.
