VICTOR:
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Healing Everyday Podcast. My name is Victor,
DEANNA:
And I'm Deanna.
VICTOR:
Hey, Deanna. How's it going?
DEANNA:
Pretty good, my voice. Um, you're gonna hear it in the episode is horse, is a little strained? I sing a lot this week though, so I think that makes sense. And I, I'm gonna rest it after the podcast today.
VICTOR:
Good. It's good to rest. Always good to rest. Well, welcome everyone. We're really excited for today's episode. Um, Deanna, why don't you kind of kick it off and let's get, do a little intro and then we'll, we'll go from there.
DEANNA:
For sure. So we were talking about what we were gonna discuss on the podcast this week, and I had said, you know, I have an issue with going out of town and staying in hotels, even if I'm with my family. And Victor went out of town, uh, over the last week, and I wanted, I wanted to talk about do you have issues traveling as a survivor? Do you have home sickness? Do you have any sort of problem with that? Because, well, it's much better for me today than it was when I was a kid when I was in college. I still have a lot of trouble staying anywhere but my house and, um, whether I'm with my family or not, but when I'm not with my family, it's horrible. So I'm just kind of curious how that's affected you and keeping in mind you've been an open survivor for much longer than I have, you know, different part of the healing journey. So yeah, tell us about your trip and if you have any issues with that.
VICTOR:
Yeah, so I, I, I was a chaperone on my, uh, kids', uh, New York choir, band and orchestra trip. And it was, it was amazing. We had a really good time. Um, it was more for, uh, kind of celebrating the end of Covid, their first trip, uh, in high school. Uh, and it was kind of, it was kind of exciting. So there wasn't a lot of, like, there wasn't a lot of performing or anything. Uh, they did get a chance to, um, uh, work with a, uh, a composer, uh, from Broadway. And, uh, my son worked with a composer from Broadway. He plays the clarinet. And my daughter is a, uh, a singer, so she worked with the choir with another director from Broadway. So it was very cool. We were actually in a place where all the Broadway musicals rehearse, and I thought that was very cool. Um, anyway, but it was just a great experience. I definitely recommend it for any parent who has kids going into high school, try to be a chaperone at least once. I had never done it before and it was my first opportunity and it was, it was really, really cool. I, I wouldn't say the, the 17 hour drive in a bus was fun,
DEANNA:
. I was just about to ask how is the bus ride there and back? Yeah, I, I have a story about being on a bus too. Yes. Um, but how was it for you?
VICTOR:
It was not good. It was, it was very, uh, uncomfortable and to say the least. Um, and, um, in, in fact, I actually sat with my daughter on the way there. Um, not really knowing, and I'll be honest with everyone, I'm kind of a shy, introverted person. So to, to meet new people on a bus, like other adults, it's fine. Once I get comfortable, uh, maybe that has something to do with my past, but it's more of like, I wanted to be comfortable with my daughter sitting next door. And that was very uncomfortable. It was comfortable being with her, but uncomfortable sitting there. And on the way back I was able to get my own seat up front with some of the other chaperones. And by then I was, you know, talking, um, but . But anyway, I digress. Um, so that wasn't an issue for me.
Um, um, and interestingly, I had an option to, to be, uh, to share a room with another chaperone. And I, I opted to pay a little bit more money to get my own room because that's one thing that I, I just like my privacy and I, I would not be comfortable with somebody that I did not know. You know, this is in college. Um, this is, you know, I'm an adult and I really want to be, I want privacy. Plus we started every morning out at like six 30 in the morning. We didn't get back to the hotel until 10 o'clock at night. So I think like all the chaperones deserved a little alone time, you know, privacy and all that stuff. So, but in terms of what we're gonna talk about today, I, I have to say that, um, it, it doesn't affect me as much anymore.
Um, but if I do go back to pre anything happening to me, pre-use, pre reliving with an alcoholic father, et cetera, um, I remember being driven to kindergarten and, um, I was always holding onto my mom's leg. I did not want to go to school. I did not want to go. In fact, there were times when she would drop me off and she would go to her girlfriend's for coffee, which was right across, we, we lived on a dead end on a creek, and she would be on the other end of the creek enjoying her coffee while I was sitting at home because I'd beat her home, I would run home. Um, so that started, you know, they all talked about separation anxiety, whatever that is, I guess it was. Uh, but I, I eventually got comfortable going to school and, and everything was fine. Uh, but I will tell you this, um, again, we're, we're gonna be as transparent as we, as we possibly can on these podcasts. And I'm, I'm very open about pretty much everything that has gone on in my life. Um, I, um, I'm divorced and I was divorced, I think, I'm not even sure, five, six years ago. And I will tell you,
Spe
DEANNA:
2018, the year before 2018, the year before we met.
VICTOR:
Oh, so this is going on five years this year then, right? Yeah. Wow.
DEANNA:
I don't know. I'm not a mathematician, Victor.
VICTOR:
That's a long time. I mean, I mm-hmm. , it's kinda weird. But, um, my point is this, I think when I, you know, I, I went and got my own apartment when we separated, and then I, I got, you know, whatever, I, I had my own house, whatever. And, um, when I would drive them home or to their mom's house and I would go back home, I felt very, I, I felt that alone feeling cuz I was like, first of all, I was missing my kids and I never expected that situation to even happen to begin with, but I was missing them. But I had that feeling of, wow, I'm all by myself. And it was kind of a lonely feeling. And then, you know, I mean, again, I'm an adult, however, I still have those feelings at times. And, and, and quite honestly, um, you know, to this day, I, I, I think there's always that moment when I drop them off that I feel, oh man, I'm not gonna see them now for a couple days.
But fortunately, our schedule's better now and I live closer to them, so it's only like a day or two before I see them again. Which is perfect and it works out really, really well. But I remember though, you know, after being abused, um, and, and living with a father who was an alcoholic, I still wanted to be home. Uh, which is interesting. I, I, I didn't, I got into high school and I kind of alienated myself to some degree. Um, I didn't go out on the weekends. I, I really focused on my homework and all that, which was, I think an escape. Uh, which I think in, in retrospect was a positive escape, considering I could have gone the other direction and started drinking and doing drugs, you know, kind of modeling my father. But I think I wanted to be home. I didn't, I, I felt safe at home even though, um, my father was, you know, doing all those things.
And let me back up for a second. My father stopped drinking before I got into high school, I believe. Yeah. So he was recovering at that time. So it was a safer environment. So I have to give my father credit for that. Um, but leading into that, I still wanted to be around my family. I felt, uh, very, uh, protected. Again, I'm the youngest of five siblings, so of course I had positive people in my life. But I will tell you this, um, my son Angelo, who's gonna be 15 in a couple of weeks, completely opposite of me. And I think this has a lot to do with the way we raised them. Um, we're a lot alike in a lot of ways. But the one thing is he wants to go to camp, he wants to go. And I think that is amazing. Everyone's different, but he does not have any issues being away from home. He loves it. And I think my other two kids would feel the same way. Um, but I, you know, I think it's a very interesting thing. And if we can connect it back to the trauma that we've experienced, you know, again, I was experiencing that before my trauma, maybe the trauma heightened it to some, some degree. What do you think?
DEANNA:
There are literally 10 things that I wanna respond to you about. Um, okay. So side note, Victor and I text a lot because we, we are, you know, work, uh, relationship, right? But I also, like, we're also friends, right? Sometimes we'll send each other voice texts, um, like a couple minutes long and I have to sit there and respond to each piece of it, or I will forget, right? So, okay. Couple of things. Let's rewind for another time. I have to tell you about my bus trip all the way to Washington DC for the women's march. Uh, it was wild. Okay? But for another time, what I really wanna respond to when I literally looked it up while we're sitting here is our attachment style. I don't know if you took child development or you learned about the early stages of life, but there are different types of attachment style that you can develop, right?
So, um, the one that I looked up right away is, um, insecure attachment style. And this is what it says, insecure attachment style is a pattern of interaction in relationships that involves fear or uncertainty. It can make it difficult for people to make deep emotional and intimate connections with a partner. It is formed early in childhood when parents cannot give their child the feeling of security that he or she needs. And there are several different types of insecure attachments such as avoidant, anxious, and fearful avoidance. So for me as a kid, it was so difficult to spend the night at people's houses, even though I was facing horrific abuse at home because I was so afraid to make relationships with other people cuz I was facing this, this terrible stuff. But I still wanted them to love me. I mean, even if the abuse wasn't directed at me, if they were, if my parents were arguing with my older sister, which happened so much, they called the police on them so much.
And my sisters never told the police what was happening because of that, that attachment style, because of the grooming, because of all these pieces. So when I was away from home, I felt guilty. I felt like I was doing something wrong. I, I don't think until I was in maybe middle school, uh, where I actually felt comfortable and safe leaving the house and wanting to spend the night at other people's houses. And it was, it's wild to think about that of, of how that existed all the way up until I was in middle school. Um, for my first extended trip away from my family, which was going to Scotland. Um, for 10 days I was away from my parents. I was 11 a year old going to Europe without her family.
VICTOR:
Can you talk about that for a second? I find that, yeah. I find that to be unbelievable that 11 year old would go to Scotland and play soccer, which is fine. I mean, that that happens. Yeah. Parents didn't go No, no, no guardian. Nobody went with you.
DEANNA:
No, no
VICTOR:
One Did parents have to sign off on something special for that because you were
DEANNA:
Yeah, I don't know if they actually signed documentation. Um, and mind you, this was all the way back in 2003. I wanna say 2000. Yeah, 2003, I think. Um, so yeah, thinking back to all that time, I don't remember any documents getting signed. I mean, they could have, let's have my mom call in the podcast . No, I'm just kidding. Um, I don't know if they signed anything. But what they did is I was entrusted to the care of my soccer coach and his wife, and they lived up the street from us. I mean, I love them. He, he passed away a few years back now and, um, I was able to tell him about, you know, the truth of my parents before he passed away and that, that made it, I mean, I could talk about what that means to me and how much he, I was able to tell him how much he meant to me, um, be before he passed, which was just, I'm so glad I got that opportunity.
Um, however, yeah, he, him and his wife Mary, uh, were my traveling companions. So I went to the airport with them. I flew on the plane with them, uh, the whole 10 day trip. Um, while I did go off with some of my other teammates families, they were my guardians. Uh, and it, and I do remember at times being so like, just overwhelmed with separation anxiety and missing my family. Um, and most of the time it happened at night. Um, when I was alone with, I actually roomed with my coach's daughter. So he had like two different groups of kids. He had his twin daughters that he had with his wife who I traveled with. And then he had two other children, um, Charlotte and Oliver who lived in England, um, away from him. And they saw each other I think twice a year. And so I roomed with his daughter who was two years older than me.
And I loved it. But at night I felt like crushing anxiety and guilt and that bad things were gonna happen if I wasn't home with my family. And that I'm across the world and I, and I remember Victor getting this sinking feeling on the plane ride home, which was like, 10 hours. I think we're gonna crash and die and I'm not gonna get home to my family. And I was, I was four of like, so much anxiety about it in that time. And so, yeah, traveling to Scotland was one of, it was one of the most excruciating things in my life cuz I was away from my family with no way of just, Hey, come pick me up and take me home. But at, at the same time, like I said, that was the summer before sixth grade. Going through that I saw how other families treated their kids. Wow. I was treated the way those other kids were treated. Um, and that blew my mind. And so once I got into middle school, well middle school was very, very difficult for me. That separation anxiety started to change. I wanted to stay at school, I wanted to be with my friends. I wanted to have different relationships. Cause I saw what it could be really be like. Did
VICTOR:
You think that, uh, trip was the, that trip was the turn? Sorry to interrupt. That trip was the turning point for you, you think?
DEANNA:
I absolutely think so now. It wasn't a turning point for me telling anybody about the abuse, right? It was certainly a turning point and saying, oh my gosh, there is a different way people live their lives. Hmm. I still didn't, I still did not connect the dots that what was happening, the physical, mental, emotional, narcissistic abuse, the sexual abuse. I wasn't connecting those terms to my experiences, but I was connecting like not a great home life and great home lives. You know, that guilt of talking about my family was still very present. Um, still, still, you know, I'm still working through that all these years later. Um, but yes, definitely a turning point for feeling that push to make relationships outside of my family and just latching onto my soccer relationships. Yeah.
VICTOR:
You know, I, I was thinking about what you just said and I, I have to say, you know, I, uh, my growing up my family life again, uh, aside from the, uh, the alcoholism and, and the violence at home, it was a lot, lot going on. We were, I never really looked at other families and said, wow, this is different than mine. Um, because our day-to-day was pretty normal. Mm-hmm. , no. Um, it was at night where it got loud and, and obvious for obvious reasons, you know, but to think about you going away, right? You, you really have nowhere else to go. You're on this trip, you're right across the, the, the pond as they call it, . You're across, you're another part of the world and you're now seeing, because there was a big difference between your home life and then seeing how these kids were being treated by their parents. And probably you saw this love and this closeness. It was kind of like, wow, you went there to play soccer, but you went there to learn about life and what you could actually have eventually with your own life. Oh, absolutely. Obviously you're not thinking about it like that at that time, but think about it back now, you know, back then, and, and you're thinking today like, wow, your family life is a lot like probably what it was like when you went there with that,
DEANNA:
With that. Absolutely. I mean, even if my analytical self, and this is me and my therapist talk about this all the time, it's one thing to have an analytical self and analyze your feelings and your experiences. It's another thing to feel them. So back then maybe I wasn't making that analytical connection with my, you know, voice. I was just feeling it and making neurological connections that I couldn't put words to until 20 years later. Yeah. And yes, absolutely. I mean, I remember there was, there was one, um, player, cause I actually played up two years. So I was actually playing with girls that were 13. Wow. Um, and I mean, I held my own. It was, I think it's one of the reasons why my coach loved me so much is because I was scrappy. I I either for, for a big chunk of my soccer career, I played against either girls that were a year or two older than me, or I played on a boys team.
So I wasn't actually playing on the correct team with my age and gender until eighth grade. Um, you know, in younger childhood, yes, I played proper age level with girls, but through, through middle school it was either older girls or playing with boys. And I think he, he loved that scrappiness, excuse me. And just spending time with them and, and him seeing how, how much I could fight and things like that. Uh, it, it's, it's so powerful to think about where I was at that time. I just needed something positive and it was right there. So yeah, I was, I was traveling, I was making these connections, not putting words to it until later. It's, it's wild to think about it.
VICTOR:
That's great. That, you know, again, we, we talk every day pretty much every Yeah. We work together. Uh, you know, we all have, everyone has a story. Uh, but every time I, I hear yours and it, this is to me a different part of it. I mean, we're not talking about the abuse itself. We're talking about, you know, another part of it, meaning being away from your family and, and hearing you say how, you know, you're, you're watching these families, you know, react to their kids and interact with their kids. I just find it to be so amazing that you have come as far as you have and that so many other people what would not have made that change. And I'm not saying you're better than anyone. All I'm saying is no, you made decisions and choices that you did not wanna relive. You didn't, you didn't wanna hold onto the memories of the past.
Now we talk about our memories all the time. Absolutely. But I think one key component of us being able to heal every day is that we're not stuck and glued to the memories of our past. And, and again, I'm not, these are words I'm learning now through some of my own, uh, learning and my own, uh, trying to figure things out with my life is that you can, you can be stuck to the memories of the past or you can have a vision of the future. And I think what we're doing with our work is all a vision of the future. It's all what we want to do to make an impact, but Right. And I think that's where a lot of people can't heal is because they're so stuck in the memories of the past that they're just, they're, they're blaming and they're shaming.
And, and I ra I raised my hand up until not that long ago. I blame myself for a lot of things. I shame myself for a lot of things. I think I'm not doing things right. And, and again, memory of the past, I was told many times that I didn't close the door properly or I didn't do this correctly. And that's the stuff that we like. It's like, uh, cholesterol, it, it sticks to the arteries. It sticks to our memory of this negativity until you realize it. Like those little things being told by my father that I didn't close the door right. Made me feel like I was wrong. And I know it's such a simple little thing, but those are the things that shape us for our future. But until we can have discussions like this, and again, not everyone can do what we do.
We don't, you know, we're just having a conversation. Have to, you don't have. Yeah. But my point is, even if you had a talk with your friend and you start saying, Hey, these are some of the things that I've been holding on to that it's time now that I, hey, I'm not gonna forget 'em. You don't wanna forget 'em because they're part of your past, but you can use them. Again, I go back to my famous thing. You can create, create out of it, whatever that is for you, you can make a decision and you can say, you know what I've learned? I mean, look at you, you, you, you are a mom and you have a family. And I, I've seen it like, you guys are are doing it right. You're close, you know, no one's perfect. Everyone has their little dysfunction, if you will. But you're doing it in such a positive way that there's love at the core and at the foundation. And, and Harry's gonna be a, you know, he's gonna be amazing because of the two of you showing him what it's like to be a good parent.
DEANNA:
Yeah. Um, uh, a little bit earlier I started talking about a girl that, that we went to Scotland with. And, um, her not, uh, mind you, it's not cheap to fly . It's not cheap to travel. I know my parents talked about what a financial burden it was to send me to Scotland. Um, but there was one girl and like her older sister, her younger sister, I think she even had other siblings and both her parents all went to Scotland together. Uh, and and that blew my mind. And I remember seeing them and, and watching these parents interact with their kids in a way that was so loving and that, that, that blew my mind. And so when I think about like, my life with Harry, with Matt as a mom, as a wife, cuz those were not modeled great to me as a kid. Um, I see such polar opposites.
I I see that family from Scotland. Um, I see, I see how they treated their kids. I see how the kids felt safe sitting next to their parents. What blew my mind as a kid was, and this is maybe a little bit of a trigger warning, seeing girls sit on their dad's laps and like just being so safe and them climbing up into their dad's lap. I never did that. I never, I never wanted to hug my dad. I never wanted to show physical affection with him because I was so afraid it was gonna tip. But then seeing girls do that, and again, it happened a lot on the Scotland trip, just kids being close with their parents. It, it opened up everything for me. And you know, Harry, my son is a very affectionate child. He's so affectionate, so affectionate that, um, we, we had like a, a disagreement last night about he got mad.
He, I think he threw his tablet and we talked about, okay, there's consequences. You're allowed to be mad but you can't do that. And he cried. He was upset he wasn't getting the tablet back. And I said, well, when you're ready we can always talk about it. And he is like, do you still love me? I said, of course I love you. I'll always love you. I go, but there are consequences. And I go, do you wanna sit and talk about it? And, and we sat and he asked for a family hug. Cuz even though he was mad about the situation, he knew he was still loved. And he took mine in Matt's heads and it got, made us give each other a kiss. And then he said, okay, um, now you guys kissed me. And we both kissed his cheeks. And like, that is something that I never remember
I never remember any moments like that with my family. And, and, and I have that now. So yeah, I, I think part of it is being stuck in that, that shame and blame and it's also, we have the power to choose. I'm not saying not choosing to have mental health issues. I am mentally ill. I'm not saying not to, not to choose to just, I, I'm not saying being toxic and be positive all the time, but I am saying, I I'm choosing to do a different path, a different parenting style than my parents ever did. I want my kid to feel safe. And, and part of that is also allowing myself the space to feel safe. So like, bringing this full circle, I don't always feel safe going like traveling without my family. That same feeling I got like being homesick and all that. It's there, it is there.
However, I, it's almost like a form of exposure therapy and, and like telling myself affirmations, when I went to California every single morning, I told myself I'm here. I, I am having a, an experience of a school year. Like, cuz I won't say of a lot of time cuz I'm going back to California, right. But I can have an experience of this school year. It's gonna be amazing. Good things can happen when I'm gone. Bad things can happen when I'm gone. And I, I can't put my ego on it and think, well only good things can happen when I'm there. And if bad things happen when I'm not there, that doesn't make it my fault. And I had to tell myself that every day cuz I miss them so much. And I, I wanted to be there, but I also, I'm not, I'm not just one facet of a person.
I love what we do for work and it is a part of me. You know, it's, it's so much more than a job. So traveling without my family, it, it is still difficult. I get that feeling of when I'm, when I was a kid. However, I'm also learning how to sit with those feelings. Reality, check myself, remind myself I can't control everything. And just because I can't control everything doesn't mean I can't continue to live my life. I'm strong. I can have these feelings and I can keep doing things that bring me joy and happiness.
VICTOR:
That's great. Amen. . Love it. That's great. Yeah. I think, I think I think too that um, you know, just because, you know, once we allow ourselves to feel what we're feeling, right. And not, you know, getting so feeling guilty about having those feelings just Yeah. Not them to happen. And, and knowing that you can, you know, you don't have to stay, you don't have to, what, what's the word you use? You don't have to make it worse than what it is. I think Tony Robbins says, see things for what they are, don't see, see them worse than they are. Right.
DEANNA:
Yeah. Catastrophizing. It's catastrophizing or catastrophic projections. I think that's what my therapist said. Yeah.
VICTOR:
Those are good words. Good words. But we we do that. We do that. Yes. The more we can, uh, uh, be aware of when we do that, um, we can, we can make it even better. We can, we can, we can get less and less about that and just seeing things for what they are and, and then again, not making them worse than they are. But I love how you brought that all back, that, you know, traveling, you know, I think traveling is, it can be challenging for, for a lot of people, for a lot of different things. Oh yeah. But I totally get it. You know, when I'm not with my kids, you know, there's a, there's a heartache there because I, uh, they are my life. But I am understanding now as I get older and they're getting older, they're becoming more independent and they're, they're wanting to go do things on their own and they're not always gonna be around me at that time or, you know, but the important thing is to understand is, you know, I don't want to, um, what I do want is to give them that ability to be self-reliant and to be able to go do the things that they want to do, knowing that I'll see them again, you know, when they come home or whatever the case is.
DEANNA:
Yeah. And so, um, I don't, I don't think we have any other overnight trips for work this school year except in April. Right. We have an overnight that we're gonna go be keynote speakers, which is so exciting. Um, so that'll be another opportunity to work on my skills. Right, right.
VICTOR:
Yeah.
DEANNA:
Another opportunity to go and change the world , which, and I, I'm super excited about it.
VICTOR:
Yeah, me too. Me too. All right everyone. I think that's really good. I think what you need to do as a listener is to spread this message. Uh, if you find it valuable, please share with your friends and, and your family. And, uh, you know, this is a journey every day. We are healing every day. And it's, it's, it's a great journey to be on. I feel it's a great, I love talking about all these different things. It's very cool.
DEANNA:
Same. And I think that while not every person who listens, connects to every single thing that we say, cuz survivors are not cookie cutter, parents are not cookie cutter. I think we can all take bits and pieces from different healing journeys. And I love it too. Yeah. So,
VICTOR:
Yeah. I love it. Um, alright, everyone, have a great day. And again, don't forget, be present, be playful, and be powerful.
DEANNA:
Be happy. Be healthy. Be safe.
VICTOR:
Bye everyone.
